Your spouse was living a double life, which I can’t even imagine. So, I asked him a few questions. He denied, denied, denied. Of course, the, you know, this one particular woman that we were talking about is she was crazy. And now, of course, I’m the crazy act. You get in line as the next crazy ex. And after about 45 minutes of talking, he was like, I know this is important, but I need to get some sleep. I wonder if I’ve been in a narcissistic relationship and not even knowing it. So, what is that exact enduring narcissistic abuse? You can be very reactive because that you’ve been conditioned to be very reactive to keeping the peace, making sure that the narcissist is happy. So, you become very reactive. This is Jenny Pin, master coach, best-selling author, and keynote speaker who helps people stop overfunctioning and start living intentionally. After decades leading high-erforming teams, Jenny created Unsubscribe. Through her coaching, speaking and topranked podcast, she helps individuals and organizations make smarter decisions, set clear priorities, and create lasting change. Once I stopped drinking and that fog began to lift and I started doing the work on myself and getting to the core of the trauma and the healing and facing those emotions, that’s when I had to go within myself. A lot of times people will say, “Oh, well, did he hit you?” “Oh, well, at least you weren’t getting hit.” But sometimes the psychological and the mental and the emotional abuse can be worse. They’ll use this method called Darvo, which is they deny and then attack. How did you incorporate meditation into your life and still do becoming more aware of your surroundings, your body, your mind, being present. That’s really what meditation is, is being present. Your past does not define you and change is possible. It is a choice. Jenny, welcome to Wake Up with Marcy. It is such a pleasure to have you on the show. Oh my gosh, the pleasure is all mine. Thank you very much for having me. Yeah. So, wow. You definitely have a story that I think a lot of us are very afraid of at times. We we trust our partner. We never really anticipate that something is happening, right? we’re feeling comfortable in our in our relationships and never think the worst, but you went through it. You found out that your spouse was living a double life, which I can’t even imagine. So, can you take us back and how did you find out and what was going on at that time? Yeah, it was pretty wild. Um, we were not married, but he and his two kids did live in my house. And I was on a work trip. I was living my corporate dream, clim climbing the corporate ladder. I was traveling a lot. And I had a friend that said, “Hey, it was a Tuesday night. I was coming home from Birmingham, Alabama.” And you know, not that I remember any of the details very vividly from from that time, but she reached out and was like, “Hey, can you have a cocktail tonight? What time do you land?” And I was like, “I don’t land until like 9:37 p.m.” And she was like, “Okay, cool. I can meet you at like 10:00.” And like this was not a 1000 p.m. Tuesday night cocktails kind of friendship. It was more like coffee and yoga and workouts, right? And so all day I’m thinking like, “Wow, I hope everything’s okay with her. I need like I’m thinking of all of the worst case scenarios of what it is that she has to tell me.” Like maybe she’s getting divorced. Maybe her like she has a really sick family member. Maybe she’s sick, right? Like the big C or some, you know what I mean? I just everything’s going through my head. Nothing ever occurred to me or crossed my mind that it could have been about me. So I meet her and she’s sobbing, has a stack of papers in front of her and I I sit down, I order the biggest glass of red wine that they possibly had. I was like, “Okay, keep pouring.” And so I reach across the table and I’m like, “I’ve been worried about you all day. What is going on? Like what did you need to talk to me about?” And she’s like, “It’s not about me. It’s about you and the guy that’s living in your house, like at home in my bed right now at that time, right?” And it was pages and pages of evidence of like literally like you said, living a double life. The the cheating, the lies, the everything about him was a complete fraud. Like raging narcissistic psychopath. And the craziest thing, Marcy, is like when I wrote the book and and put my story out there, I didn’t even have a fraction of what I know now. Yeah. So years later, I continued to learn more and more and more about of what what he was doing. While he was living in my house. So, okay. But how did she have these pages and pages of evidence? Like, how did that even start? I don’t know exactly. I think she sought it out, quite honestly. I think she didn’t like him. A red flag was raised and I think she sought it out, which is not the story that she told me, but it’s neither here nor there. She did her research. She, you know, connected with some people that gave different like dates and things that were going on. And then for me, I just needed to like validate one piece of evidence to know like if one thing is true, it’s probably all true, right? And so, okay, so you this bombshell is dropped on you. What what were you thinking at that time? Like how did you even handle this situation? I don’t even know what I would do. like I I would just be like I’d want to kill the guy. Um so I I came home and we talked for I don’t know maybe 45 minutes and I was like for me and this is actually as a coach I always coach people to this if they are going through a similar situation. Don’t give them too much. I wanted to see what he would tell me. Right? So, I was very careful about holding my cards close and not letting him know everything that I knew or that I thought I knew. So, I asked him a few questions. He denied, denied, denied. Of course, the, you know, this one particular woman that we were talking about is she was crazy. And now, of course, I’m the crazy ex, right? It just, you know, you get you get in line as the next crazy ex. Um, and after about 45 minutes of talking, he was like, “I know this is important, but I need to get some sleep.” So, he slept on the couch and then got up super early at like 5:00 a.m. and rushed the kids out. I didn’t sleep at all. And then I started my PI detective work the next morning, immediately after he left. And I was able to evidence a hotel stay. It was under his name. You know, there’s no denying it. So, that was my and that was he had denied that to me. No, no, no, that’s not true. like I was here blah blah and he wasn’t. And part of like the worst offense to me was I had elderly dogs at the time and he would neglect them and just leave them. While I would be gone so hurtful. I would hate them. Yeah. Yeah. Like that was one of my worst things. But then like he had he had made up to this girl like saying things like this one girl and by the way there’s like hundreds. Um, but like this one woman he told that one of his kids had brain cancer. Oh my god. And that they needed to stay on my health insurance. They were never on my health insurance. Like the the pathological line and the egregiousness of it. And like who would ever even put that out into the universe about their own kid? I know. Now, did you ever have any red flags prior to this? Yes and no. Like because I ignored them. They were there. I ignored them. like the fact that my body was trying to tell me that something was wrong long before my mind and my heart could catch up. For example, I had abnormal skin cancer lesions uh that I had to have removed. My hair all broke off and fell out. Oh, and I got shingles on my face in my 30s. Oh my god. Wow. Now during this time also like was he showing that narcissistic behavior in hindsight? Yes. And so I didn’t I didn’t really fully understand it because I grew up in a narcissistic family. So my mom is extremely narcissistic and so is one of my siblings. And to me that was familiar. Mhm. And so I didn’t necessarily know how wrong it was until after, right, until you kind of have this moment that implodes your life and then you’re like, wait a minute, like what is going on here? And so that’s when I really started doing the research and deeply understanding it and all the light bulbs went on and I was like, “Oh, this is why I’m a people pleaser. Oh, this is why I’m a perfectionist and oh, this is why I have to achieve so much in life and want people to like me and make sure everybody else around me is happy and you know, like I started to have to understand my own behaviors and patterns.
So that’s trauma. I mean, you went through trauma through your developmental stages just as I did, but a different type of trauma, which is interesting because I was the people pleaser also. I always had to get validation from everyone else. I was always looking for love from others. Now, I had abandonment issues and sexual abuse and there were alcoholics. My mom was an alcoholic and so on. So, it’s interesting to hear the parallels as far as how we become adults, like our behaviors in our adulthood, seeking that love and approval. So, for someone out there that really doesn’t understand what a narcissist is, because I I know that well, I don’t know this, but I I wonder if I’ve been in a narcissistic relationship and not even knowing it. So what what is that exactly? Well, let me just start with some stats. So according to Dr. Romney, who is probably the world’s biggest guru when it comes to narcissism, says that one in six people are a narcissist. Oh my. Oh my. Okay. So you’re like, if you’re like, okay, I’ve got this group of six friends. Which one is it? Right? Like you just you literally instantly start to do the math. Or if like you have four kids and two parents, like who you know what I mean? So like statistically the stats are really high and so in order so keep in mind narcissism is a scale. Everybody has some narcissistic traits even me and you. Yeah. That said, okay, to have narcissistic personality disorder, NPD, to be diagnosed with it, first of all, they’d have to actually go to therapy and and admit that, you know, that something’s not right, which is very rare. That’s why it’s so highly underdiagnosed. There are nine criteria. You have to present with at least five of them persistently and it has to affect your interpersonal relationships, which narcissists always have a difficult time with interpersonal relationships. So, their lack of empathy, devaluing others, and overvaluing themselves. Like I said, there’s nine of them. I can’t think of all of them right off the top of my head, but the grandiosity, the They always make you feel like you’re wrong, right? No matter no matter what. Like I That’s a That’s a big arrogance. Uhhuh. Yes. Absolutely. So that’s what it takes to be a narcissist. I can also tell you a lot about what it’s like to be a narcissistic abuse victim. And it’s very real because a lot of times people will say, you know, they think, “Oh, well, did he hit you? Oh, well, at least you weren’t getting hit.” But sometimes the psychological and the mental and the emotional abuse can be worse. It’s called CPTTSD. So, it’s this complex post-traumatic stress disorder where you’re experiencing all of these little micro traumas constantly. And that’s why that’s why like usually for someone like me, when you have this like big moment, then you start to realize what had been happening all along. But you you from the gaslighting, you start to question reality and question yourself and think that you’re actually going crazy. Because when you are confronted or you have those red flags and you question it, they will talk in circles. They will turn it back on you. They’ll use this method called Darvo, which is they deny and then attack reverse the victim and offender. So, there’s all of these manipulative behaviors that they implement that make that really make you start to question your self-worth, who you really are. You just you lose yourself in in so many of the instances. Yeah. Well, it’s like being abused all the time, right? Whereas if you’re physically hit, which is awful. There’s no denying that. But that this type of abuse is it’s daily almost. I mean, in in their actions and obviously our bodies do tell us and we end up getting sick, right? Because that’s how our bodies react a lot of times.
So what for you like okay this happened the breakup happens how did you change yourself so that now you you’re breaking the cycle that you are now not going to go into another narcissistic relationship hell no. Can I say hell I said I was going to kill him on the show. I say hell. Perfect. So for me it was like I think what’s important to remember uh for anybody that’s going through something similar or just like going through the process of healing that whole personal growth you know journey is that transformation feels really big when it happens but all the change along the way is really small. So you’re never going to like poof wake up one day and like be better. I’m healed, right? Like that’s why we call it a journey. It’s it’s always continuous and and always and continuing. So I think for me, I realized that I was being somebody that I thought everybody else wanted me to be. And so like I was always in here, but I anybody that knew me 7 10 years ago wouldn’t recognize me. And my closest friends like will say, “Wow, like this was you all along.” But it was almost like hidden under this armor, you know, like this false sense of armor that made me seem like tough and cold and whatever. But I I am strong. Like having made it through this, like the strength that it took to get through that was incredible. But I would say I’m much more warm, softer. I care about way different things. And it’s the things I’ve always cared about. But your sphere of influence is real. Like you’re only as good as the company you keep. And that was a lot of the people that were the closest around me. And so, you know, they value image and things and material things, but then they don’t have any money in the bank, you know, and I value experiences and real connection. So, like it’s really helped me repprioritize what matters the most to me and always has. But now I actually get to spend my time and energy on it. I have real boundaries now. Um I enjoy like I’m confident in who I am. And I always say that confidence is how much you actually like yourself. And that’s been a journey too like spending time with myself doing not just like sitting alone at home but like actually doing things with yourself so that you know what makes you happy, what brings you joy. Like I am a huge advocate of taking yourself out for coffee, lunch, dinner, and then if you can work up to it, take solo vacations because they really are so good for connecting with yourself and it’s such an enlightening experience. So I mean I could go on and on. Meditation has been a huge game changer for me. I think people will like when you are enduring narcissistic abuse, you can be very reactive because that you you’ve been conditioned to be very reactive to keeping the peace, making sure that the narcissist is happy. So, you become very reactive and I’m not reactive anymore. I would say I’m more responsive. I’m much more calm. And so, yeah, I think that all those things kind of show up in a different way.
Yeah, it’s just so interesting. Uh I too had to go through this whole cycle of healing. I I’m now just 10 years sober and it was once I stopped Thank you. once I stopped coping with alcohol. That’s how I coped with my trauma and my victimhood. And you know, I had the walls up, but I was always I had the walls up, but I was always needing someone else to fill my cup. And so once I stopped drinking and that fog began to lift and I started doing the work on myself and getting to the core of the trauma and the healing and facing those emotions, that’s when I had to go within myself. And that’s what you’re saying. It’s like that’s where that true healing, connection, self-love begins. And then it changes everything on the outside because I was very reactive. Now I’m responsive and you know it’s connecting spiritually. It’s doing the meditation and you know listen I’m not saying and I don’t know about you I can’t sit there for a long time and when I you know when I talk about meditation yes it’s sitting and being quiet with yourself but also even within those guided meditations you can start to feel the shift and then also a big one was gratitude how did you incorporate meditation into your life and still do I am a big fan of guided meditation I actually put the guided meditation in my own voice on my uh YouTube channel for my community just because I’m that passionate about it. I’ve had meditation guru experts on my own podcast to talk about the benefits. It’s it is so powerful. But guided meditations are really where it’s at for me because I I like the idea of like oftentimes how they’ll walk you through like that body mind connection. And so there’s no wrong way to do it. And I think that’s like walking in quiet can be a form of meditation like just exper you know like becoming more aware of your surroundings your body your mind the being present that’s really what meditation is is being present so that can look a lot of different ways and look like before I ever meditated for the first time I was like you go take your hippie- dippy like pillows and you go do your meditation like that’s not for me and now I can’t imagine life without it like I tend to do it. It It depends. Like I’ll do it at whenever I feel like I need it. But I will tell you, I notice when I’m slipping is like if I get really annoyed in traffic, I’m like, “Oh, you haven’t meditated in a couple days, have you?” Like, cuz that’s out of character. It’s like you slip back into a old pattern or behavior and then you go, “Okay, I see what’s happening here.” You just become a lot more self-aware, which is huge. Yeah. It’s that inner guidance you come connected to, right? And then it’s all about calming that nervous system that keeps us crazy. We got to do the work.
So that took you to unsubscribe, which I love, and also your book. So tell us about Unsubscribe. Unsubscribe is the filter that I wish I had when I needed it the most. And so that’s really why I developed it because we are in this world right now where everybody’s overwhelmed wearing busyiness like a badge of honor. Um but are people actually being productive and we do so many things out of obligation or because we think we need to or we think we should and I just I wanted to create a simple language that people understood that really helps make a difference in their lives. It works as conversation and dialogue amongst friends, amongst family units, amongst teams and organizations. And that’s what I love about it. It’s really about like why letting go is the secret to getting ahead. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I just Well, I just used this com or I just used this example in a conversation with a friend this morning and I was like even nature trees, right? I was driving yesterday and I was like even trees unsubscribe. They are letting go of their leaves right now temporarily so that they can welcome in that new growth. And that’s kind of what unsubscribe is all about. It really helps you reclaim time, energy, and boundaries at work and in life. And also like the trees are releasing those leaves. I love that analogy because they’re releasing those leaves so they can survive through the winter, right? So, as we’re going through survival and transformation, we got to let go. We got to let go of a lot of stuff. So, I love love that.
So, tell us about your book. And you also have a book coming out in 2026. Yes. So, my it’s Thank you. It’s very exciting. So, my first book is called You’re My Favorite. That is where I share the story, all the juicy details of what I went through with my own experience. And then I developed a coaching model and my second book is called I’m my favorite. It’s a guided journal for your own path forward to really help people. It’s got beautiful illustrations, 13 months of content. Both of those are available on Amazon. And then my next book coming out is called Unsubscribe: Why Letting Go is the Secret to Getting Ahead. So that will be uh coming out in 2026, which I’m really excited about. Fantastic. So, how can we get in touch with you, learn more? Maybe somebody wants to work with you. Yeah, so you can go to I hang out on socials the most on Instagram. I do have a pretty solid YouTube channel, has over three million views. Um, and then I’ve got two different websites. So, jinnipy.com, just my name, or unsubscribeofficial.com. And that’s where I have like merch that people can get. Learn more about unsubscribe. You can book me as uh for speaking through either of those. That’s a big part of what I do. Amazing. I tell you, we got to go through the muck, right, to get to our purpose. And now you’re changing lives. So, thank you so much for coming on Wake Up and sharing your experience being vulnerable because that’s where we create the change, right? And it’s so you’re so strong being so vulnerable and thank you for the work that you do. Thank you so much for having me. This was lovely. Awesome. Well, guys, remember to always know that you are worthy. Your past does not define you. And change is possible. It is a choice. And please, if someone needs to hear this, share the show because this is how we get that message out there, right? Like, subscribe, do all the things so we can grow the Wake Up with Marcy family. And I will see you next week with a brand new episode. All right, guys. Have a wonderful one. See you then.
