Wake Up With Marci

The moms. We need to hear this today. When we say mean girls or middle school drama, what we’re really talking about is relational aggression. I know that she and some other women would talk behind my back, not very warm. And then I see it trickle down with the kids. Fawning can come from earlier childhood dynamics where if you had a parent that felt threatening or you had a parent that felt unsafe in an emotional way. This is Dr. Dr. Noel Santaelli, licensed clinical psychologist, adjunct faculty at Emory, and the woman helping us understand mean girl culture and how to rise above it. For over 14 years, she’s helped high achieving women heal from early trauma, toxic family patterns, and those subtle forms of relational aggression that can leave us questioning our worth. Today on Wake Up with Marcy, we’re diving into how to protect your peace, set boundaries, and step fully into your power. Because healing starts with awareness, and it starts right here. How can we navigate this better? Making the threat, making yourself appealable or likable or valuable to the thing that is scary and the thing that wants to eat you. How they perceived me was so important to me because that’s how I got my validation and selfworth. Dr. Noel, welcome to Wake Up with Marcy. It’s so awesome to have you here. Thank you. It’s awesome to be here. I love that we found each other on Instagram and I’ve been watching what you’re doing and just I really love the topic that you’ve been discussing so much. It like really resonated with me and that’s that mean mom culture. Can you tell us exactly what that means and and and how did that come about for you? Okay. So, mean mom culture for me was something that I started noticing or observing. I’m a mom of three um all the way from high school down to elementary school. So, I’ve seen lots of different ages and stages and I’m a clinical psychologist who works in private practice, but my training was in of course individual therapy but primarily based in family systems. And what I started to do is I started to notice that a lot of the dynamics that I would see in dysfunctional family systems were the same dynamics that were coming up in friend groups or team sports parents or groups. And so I started to think about how what is this parallel here between a family system and just a basic group system. And I really started noticing it heavily because I’m a mom among some of the mom groups and mom friend groups that I was a part of. And it started to feel very much like mean girl dynamics. Yeah. And from that came mean girl mom dynamics. That’s where it came from from my perspective. Yeah. Yeah. And I and I like what you call it. It’s kind of like the adult version of that middle school dynamic. Right. Right. Yeah. And and I got to tell you, I mean, I have felt it. My kids are are now in college and such, so I don’t necessarily have the connections like I used to, but I’ve been on that black top and felt that 100%. or at the games, you know, with the kids and and so what is happening there? I mean, why do you think that these these behaviors are showing up in these circles? So, the the behavior that we sort of think of as the middle school behavior is technically I think what we’re all when you say you felt it, right? What you probably felt was side eye or groupings or in versus out or whispers or just just an energy, right, about the relationships that were showing up. what that really is. And in middle school, it’s developmentally appropriate to have these sort of social emotional development of groupings, belongings, power, dominance, control, and how that shows up among different relationships. When we start to use the relationships to manipulate or manage the situations around us and we’re doing it in a way to get ourselves control or get power or get what we want, that starts to be relational aggression. M so when we say when I say this adult version of middle school or mean girl moms, what what we mean when we say mean girls or middle school drama, what we’re really talking about is relational aggression. Covert bullying is another name for it. But that’s when we’re using things like gossip, exclusion, social hierarchies, passive aggressive behaviors, triangulation to manage and manipulate different relationships and alter people’s perceptions of you and your relationships with them. Right? So that’s what it is big picture relational. God and it just hits. And I’m and I’m thinking about it because I mean I I was talking about a woman just yesterday that my daughter, you know, grew up with these her friends and of course I’m around the moms and literally yesterday I said, “Yeah, she’s a mean girl.” And talking about the mom, right? And what made you think that? What was her behavior? So just not inclusive. I know that she and some other women would talk behind my back. Not very warm and and then I see it trickle down with the kids. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. That was my biggest impetus to start speaking on this because we’ve all experienced relational aggression. Again, developmentally appropriate in middle school, high school. That’s what happens. And and we’re learning at that stage of our life, how to resolve conflict, how to regulate our emotions, and and how to manage, you know, big group dynamics. We hope that as you become older, you learn better ways to manage your own emotions, to resolve conflict, and to have direct communication. Often times we can see that not every adult can do that. But when it really starts to get complicated emotionally, I found was when you see it in the mothers and it is trickling down to your kid via their kids because they’re being modeled this model of relational aggression to get what they want or to control a dynamic or to control power. And it really impacts the kids emotionally. Yeah. And it impacts their ability to then resolve conflict, regulate emotions, focus on inclusion, um be an upstander, which is something I always talk about, not a bystander. Um, so the the trickle down effect is the thing that really got me is when I started to see, wow, I see exactly where we’ve got this group system of the moms who are acting like middle schoolers with the amount of relational aggression and that’s what they’re modeling for their kids and that’s the model that then my kids are going to be a part of. Right. Right. I always am very, not that my daughter’s perfect in any in any way, but being kind has always been important and been being inclusive. So, no matter what group dynamic Gracie is in, my daughter, she’s always been inclusive. And these other moms, there was a situation where one of the moms was making fun of me. I started a business and I could tell she was making fun of me and her daughter and one of her friends was in the in the car which were friends with my daughter and it was so hurtful and but the worst part of it was seeing that she was doing this in front of these girls that were friends with my daughter. and now forming opinions like they were laughing at me. So you’re teaching them to not only like treat their peers that way, but also an adult, right, without absolutely respect and and forming opinions around someone when this one particular person I found out after all this came out that she hadn’t liked me since our kids were in nursery school together. and and the question had been proposed to her like why right why do you why do you not like her and she never really had a reason so you know there is that and that has stayed with me that I mean that was like god nine years ago right and still that pain is there and I just tried to point that out to my daughter right just how I I don’t talk about people. And and listen, I’m not perfect in any way. I’m not trying to toot my horn or anything. I’m just saying that it’s just so important that we model behaviors for our children because if we are screaming, if we’re cursing, if we’re talking about people, making fun, acting as if we’re better, just to think about that, that how that is affecting our children. And then what I’d love to talk about is why is that happening for that adult, right? Like what has happened for that adult for them to be doing that. So I think that’s a powerful story. Number one, I will say research shows that when we’re excluded, and I think hearing yourself spoken about negatively by a mom in a group you think you’re included with or your daughter’s included with, right? To me, that that that would trigger a feeling of exclusion like why am I not like why not me, right? What would I do? And so research actually shows that the same neural pathways in the brain are activated when we feel social exclusion as when we have a physical injury. And I find that fas. So when you say, you know, this was nine years ago and I still feel it. Yeah. We feel the social emotional pain of exclusion the same as a physical pain. So the same as you can remember what it felt like to stub your toe or right you know break your break your leg, you can remember social emotional pain just the same because of the neural pathways. So that’s number one. Number two, why? And that’s a huge question. So we’ve got individual factors, right? So we have individual factors of this particular woman and why might she be acting this way towards another woman in front of her children. So there could be things like from her childhood where she was maybe not recognized enough. So she feels very threatened by women that are potentially confident or seemingly more powerful or attractive or intelligent. So you could have traits and we don’t know what those traits are. I mean, right, there’s some research that shows that there are certain traits that are particularly triggering traits that sort of embody power, control, um, physical appearance, um, degrees, things like that, success, but you triggered her in some way that she was clearly unable to articulate because it’s about her, not you. Yeah. So, that’s one like individual piece. We don’t know what in her background made her feel like you would be a threat to her, but it’s usually about protection. Yeah. And like, so it happened to me, but I feel like that that’s just my story, but I feel like things like that happen quite often. Maybe they’re not seeing it necessarily. I kind of caught that it happened, but Right. But those things are happening. They’ve got there’s the group clicks and I and I feel like it’s so much stronger within the mom groups because now as I am becoming this entrepreneur and meeting women that are doing the same and actually we’re not all against one another, right? There’s not these necessarily clicks and we can get behind one another. Absolutely. Yes. Right. Yep. And and so that really changed for me. Like when I started seeing that, I’m like, “Wow.” Because I always thought women were in competition, right? And then you noticed it was women with children that were friends with or around the same age group in the same community as your children. It’s the mom groups where I see it come up the strongest. Yeah. So part of that is motherhood. Like if we take a step back and look at like evolution. So evolutionarily speaking, motherhood stirs up our most primitive instincts. We are mammals. We are animals. childbearing and having our children and providing for our children safety, food, shelter, protection that triggers a very natural instinct within ourselves of protection. Yeah. In the culture and in the world we live in now, the way we protect or the way we think we have to protect and get resources, our resources look very different now than they did when we were hunter gatherers or, you know, needing to protect our farmlands. Now, our resources look like who makes the spot on the team, who gets the scholarship, or even things like social capital, who gets to decide the Halloween group costume, which is like the big talk right now. Yeah, that would be social capital. So, those are our resources. And as parents, we are trying to protect our children and get them the most resources possible. And if another woman seems like a threat and like she’s gonna stand in the way of our child’s success, that relational aggression really comes out because and again, evolutionarily speaking, women don’t fight physically. It was too dangerous, right? We fight relationally, okay? And so that is how we fight to get our children their resources. That we believe are scarce, right? Wow. Which kind of right? Like if you look at college admissions or you look at the number of spots on travel team sports or you look at, you know, everything’s getting more and more intense. Now, you can’t get into a good college unless you have a 4.2 two and a 1500 on the SATs. Well, you can get into a good enough college, but the the standards have really ratcheted up so high that there’s this scarcity mentality. And so, if there’s not a lot out there and you’re potentially getting in my my primary source of being, my my child, I have to protect this child. if you’re going to steal their resources or potentially steal their resources, if you’re a threat, I’m going to fight the way I know how to fight. And that’s relationally. So, it’s like the competition that’s happening, but really about our children. Yes. And I will also I’m like a big box thinker. I take it as further and parenting is no longer something that we that we do, right? As human beings, we used to you parent because you procreate and you have children and you feed those children and you protect those children. Parenting was something you did. Parenting was not who you were. H Yeah. So parenting is now it’s not something you do, it’s what you are. Yes. Yes. and competition when parenting is your identity you really that competition is going way up. You’re going to fight for what what you need to do to keep your position if that’s your identity. And that’s really interesting too, right? Because we we do talk about our identity, especially like for me, I go to certain things and they’re like, “Who are you?” Right? And so then you start ticking off who you are and they’re like, “No, that’s not really who you are.” Right? That’s not right. You’re identifying yourself by all of these labels, right? But who are you innately? Who are you as a person? And and like and even for myself, like I completely lost myself in that. And that’s very easy to do. Very. Yeah. And I think that there’s and it’s really hard for women too. Like maybe they got a great college degree, maybe they had a great job and now they’re parenting. So they they feel like they’ve got to always prove something like this hierarchy, right? Yeah. All that energy of performance culture, performative, right? It it then starts come out in your children. Add to that that biological drive to protect that fierceness that comes out. Yeah. Oh, believe me, that mama bear, right? They talk about that. Exactly. You combine those two things, that highly competitive edge or nature with the mama bear protective part and you’ve got a whole recipe, a whole group of moms. Yeah. That is a recipe for relational aggression to come out. And I do find it most in women that are strong women, right? So we I feel that we have the hardest time with that, right? Because there’s always whether it’s we’re a part of the PTO, we’re a part of the school and right who’s in control and oh well what opinions you can feel like opinions are threatening or really they’re ideas, right? A lot of ideas. So and and I only can again talk from my story because I I am a strong person. I do feel that I can be a leader but I recognize like with these strong personalities like I had to pull back like I just kind of shut down in a lot of ways. I’m like okay whatever you want and just tell me what I got to do. Yeah. Right. and what you see as an opinion or an idea or just sort of brainstorming or being a leader. Yeah. Other people can interpret that as a as a real threat. Right. Right. Whether it is or it isn’t and you’re not you’re not seeing it that way, but they might. Right. And and listen, you know, sometimes change is hard, right? So things have been done a certain way and and then you start throwing out ideas and it makes people uncomfortable and and they don’t know how to to work with those. So all right. So we put out what this is and very very enlightening and there’s just so many of us. We’re all going through it. We’re all going through it. Whatever stage you’re at, right? But you’re in that. Yeah. It is. So, so what can we do? How can we navigate this better? If it is happening, how can we help ourselves to feel better in those situations? I mean, like what are some answers? Yeah. So, I think I think I always say name it to tame it. That’s number one. We need awareness. Yeah. If you’re living an experience and you cannot take a step back and see the big picture, it becomes so personalized and so internalized. Yes. Right. You start to really feel the weight of it. You’re like you’re the only one and it’s really something about you. And sometimes it is. I I like to say, you know, we can all participate in none of us are perfect, right? Self-awareness, right? It’s important. Selfareness. Absolutely. It doesn’t, like you said, you were like, you know what, maybe I should hold back in some of these meetings. Maybe maybe I am a louder voice and maybe I could benefit from from working on listening more. Right. Yeah. So, we can all we all have our roles, but no one is primarily responsible for being the target of relational aggression or negative gossip or slandering you in front of children, right? Nobody is deserving of that. Right. And so naming it I think is the first step. We have to start and we are which I’m thrilled about. We are talking about this dirty little secret of mean girl behavior in mom groups. There are so many mothers that feel like it’s something they’ve done or somehow some way that they’re showing up or something their kid has done that is making them be the target of these behaviors themselves or their child. Right? And so first step I think is having these open conversations not to blame not to place blame but to understand where might this be coming from. There are individual factors with each individual person. But then there are there are the cultural factors that are a sign of our time and modern parenting that’s making this mean girl mom culture feel pervasive. spots are getting tighter, competition’s getting higher, stakes are getting higher. And so that’s the cultural piece. We’ve also seen a big shift in parenting perspectives. So if you look, you know, if if we take a a really big bird’s eye view back, and again, this is part of what do we do about it? We start by understanding it. So when we look back at our at our like boomer parents that generation Yeah. they were super handsoff, right? They were figure it out. We don’t talk about emotions. You work you, you know, if something’s not working, work harder. Try, you know, we weren’t talking about emotions. So they were so hands off. Yeah. And we had a bit of a swing into which morphed into sort of that helicopter parent where it was I was called that. You were called. Okay. Yeah. And it was all about being overprotective. That’s that mom that that overprotecting that sort of like I need to really sort of counteract what the boomer parents did and like we’re going to be all Yeah. We’re gonna be all about being kind and understanding emotions and validating. What I’ve started to notice, and I’m calling it the we’re not the helicopter parents that we’re seeing, but we’re seeing more the performative parenting. Ah, so what I’m seeing, and I think this coincides with social media and how much of our lives are now public, whether we choose that to be the case or not, most people have a public public persona or public, you know, I don’t know anyone that’s really not on any social media. So, we’re starting to have this performative parenting where it’s starting to be more about curating the perfect childhood less about our children, but more about protecting the image of our parenting and the image of our children, right? How they show up, what they look like, what school are they going to, did they make the travel team. It’s less about protecting and less about protecting their emotions, and it’s more about protecting the image. That’s what’s to the kid. What I mean, I just feel like Yeah. But I just feel like that would be so much pressure for the for the child. Oh, it is. It’s it’s it’s from a mental health perspective, right? That’s why we start to see we have enormous rates of depression, anxiety, suicidal ideiation attempts, right? That is a lot of pressure to live a curated and performative existence. Yeah. And one of the things that I’ve always uh through through my own healing, I’ve had to do a lot of healing, I’ve recognized my flaws and becoming self-aware and trying to be better with those. But what I’ve recognized is that and what I’ve I’ve said for a long time is that we we hone in on what’s happening with our child. But the reality is a lot of that stems from us and then again that trickle down, right? So things that have hurt us, right? have harmed us through our lives. We are now putting that and I was guilty of this putting that out on our child. Right? So I get that performative but it’s like the expectations of our kids. Maybe we were that way. Maybe we weren’t that way. We want our kids to be that way. Maybe we weren’t popular. Maybe that we weren’t like that much. But now our kids are going to be right. And then maybe we’re going to get that validation through what’s happening through our child. Absolutely. But we got to start with ourselves, right? That self-recognition and that’s how we can best help our child, right? And that’s that mindfulness and self-awareness piece that is taking a step back. Taking a step back outside of your little world or your little dynamic, you and your child or you and your immediate family and thinking, what am I doing this for? and why. Right? So, going back to parenting is no longer something we do. It’s something we are, right? But why? Why? What are you having children? What is your goal for your child? What are you maybe reenacting through your parenting that you could heal in a different way or express in a different way? Not through your children, not through your community, but through That’s right. That’s right. Because you’re like living through your kid, living through your community. Um, and I think it’s perception, too. How much I do in the community or whatever, but like not losing yourself because that’s that’s where a lot of that pain sets in and and we don’t I I don’t think we even realize it. No. No. I think lots of times and again like these mean girls or mean girl moms I don’t think any of them are actually mean right I think it all comes from unrecognized or reactive responses and behaviors that are coming from somewhere inside something that’s been stirred up emotionally you’re feeling threatened or you’re feeling like I’ve got to seek out resources or I’ve got to protect my child or I have to shine in this way and it’s not all that deep, right? But it comes out like mean behavior. But when we really step back, it’s just people trying to heal and trying to get what they think they need or deserve without really being self-aware or self-actualized enough to know what they really need. Yeah. And and don’t you think our kids see it? 100%. Our kids learn much more through modeling than what we actually say to them. Yeah. Right. They’re watching us. They’re watching us. Um I’ve had my kids say to me, you know, Johnny said that I’m I don’t know, some grown-up word that, you know, no kid ever came up with. And you’re like, “Oh, because yeah, your parents were talking about you to their child and now gave you the grown-up word to say about you, right?” Like how those that mom was talking in the car about you, right? Your children picked that up and your ch like they hear they see it being modeled. They they model our language. They model our behaviors. And so yes, this is this is being taught. Yeah. And when we don’t speak up for when we see these kinds of behaviors going on, that models to our children that you should be silent when you’re uncomfortable with a situation. Yeah. So that models, how can we be comfortable with that then? How can we be comfortable to speak up or set that boundary for ourselves? You have to be comfortable with being uncomfortable. Mhm. So you have to start understanding that you can handle being uncomfortable. You can handle discomfort and be okay. So a lot of this is about avoiding discomfort and avoiding hard emotions that we think will destroy us or we can’t manage. Yeah. And so it’s exposing ourselves to I can handle discomfort. This might be an awkward conversation. this might feel weird and that’s okay. I will be okay. I can handle I can do hard things and I can handle hard emotions. So, a lot of it is avoidance of you know I might not speak up because I don’t want to be the next person kicked out of the group or I might not speak up because I don’t want to see someone roll their eyes at me because that’s going to make me feel weird. And so, it’s learning that you will come out the other side. you can get through uncomfortable things including uncomfortable emotions. That’s how I think we start we start exposing ourselves to uncomfortable emotions. Yeah. Because I think that we’re so afraid not to be liked, right? And then the people pleasing and I feel like that’s just like a lifelong thing that we’re fighting. Well, and our nervous system response. So, you know, we’ve got the and this goes back to where does this come from personally for for each individual person, but we’ve got our nervous system response. We’re also familiar with fight, flight, or freeze. Yeah. But we forget that there’s the fawn response. So, part of that nervous system, sometimes we fight, sometimes we flight, sometimes we freeze. Lots of times we fawn. And fawning is making the threat making yourself appealable or likable or valuable to the thing that is scary and the thing that wants to eat you. That’s fine. Yeah. Okay. So, most of us never not heard that. Yeah. We fawn. It’s a fawning behavior. And that’s that’s that’s people pleasing to an excess. But it’s the idea of if I make myself valuable, if I make this this threat like me, if I’m good enough, if I do it well enough, if I’m funny enough, smart enough, achieved enough, that threat won’t hurt me, right? And so we have to remind ourselves, I am safe. Yeah, this feels uncomfortable and I don’t like it, but I am safe. I’m not actually in a threat state because bombing is a threat response. And that just triggers a story for me. Like I remember God even like in middle school like I knew this girl didn’t like me. And I was so determined that she was going to like me. And I’ve done that so many times. Right? doesn’t mean that I liked that person, but I was going to make sure they liked me. Yep. And that’s a nervous system response most often, right? And that might have that might have stemmed from feeling, you know, sometimes fawning can come from earlier childhood dynamics where if you had a parent that felt threatening or you had a parent that felt unsafe in an emotional way, you can learn that you have to people please or or present or look a certain way in order to remain valuable in order to not be abandoned. really. It’s so interesting. Like I always wondered why I did that. Now I had a lot of abandonment and felt unsafe in in areas in my life, but that really makes sense now. You have to rewire your brain. Yeah. To to understand that you not pleasing someone doesn’t mean you’re unsafe. I’m good now. I’m sorry. I Sorry to interrupt you. I’m like, “No, no, not you, but anyone who’s feeling this.” Yeah. Anyone who feels that way, right? They have to re They have to do the work. It’s hard. Yeah. But they have to do the work to understand that they are safe even if someone doesn’t like them. Well, and that’s what I’ve learned, right? Again, like we we’re talking about all of these external things, right? But the reality is all of this healing, rewiring, changing how we think, how we protect ourselves, how we value ourselves, that’s all an internal job. It comes from within. And the reality is is that I didn’t love myself. I didn’t know myself. I had lost myself. So what other people how they perceived me was so important to me because that’s how I got my validation and selfworth. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. I think there’s so many of us that that are dealing with that, right? So, let’s talk about the healing and how we can begin to protect ourselves or start to heal or maybe somehow change that social dynamic for ourselves or or maybe have it not matter as much. Yeah. And I always like to say, you know, we we can start small. Start small and start to recognize or start to notice spaces where your nervous system feels calm. So if you notice that with certain groups you are starting to get sort of worked up or anxious or starting to overthink what am I going to wear? Uh okay well what time do I have to leave? How am I going to you’re starting to overthink how you’re going to show up. To me, that’s often now that can happen if you have basic social anxiety or if it’s a new group. But if you start doing that when it’s an established friendship or an established group, you’re overthinking how you’re showing up, that’s a sign that there’s something going on within you where you’re not feeling safe in that environment. You know, the friend groups or the friends you can call and you can show up in your sweats, you can have your hair in a ponytail, right? I’d like people to start to be mindful of that feeling. If you can have that feeling, those are the groups and relationships where you want to really lean in. So, one one step is to start small and notice where does your nervous system, where does it feel calm, where do you feel safe, where do you feel grounded, and try to expand on those relationships. Lots of times we confuse um chaos with chemistry. So lots of times we think if we feel really excited or really energized by a group or or really desperate to be a part that that means it’s chemistry or kismic. Sometimes that’s just really bad anxiety and it means you’re not feeling safe. Yeah. So lean into those friendships that feel safe, that feel grounding, that feel like you’re in an old pair of pajamas. Yeah. Think about what environments where do I feel that and how can I lean more into those experiences? So that’s one way to start. And then I always say diversify. So just like you diversify your financial assets, you want to diversify your social assets. So I think part of that sort of losing yourself or losing yourself in motherhood or losing yourself in a job or wherever you might lose yourself lots of times that means that we just haven’t diversified enough. So when you’re particularly I think when you’re a young mom or or new to motherhood you really feel like you must be friends with your kids’ friends. Yeah. Right. Feels like that’s a must. Yeah. And part of that is we need a village. We need a tribe. We we are going through similar life stages and so that feels natural. But I really really encourage people to not just pick from that same bucket. Keep your work friends, keep your high school friends, keep your friends from the old neighborhood, keep your friends that haven’t had kids or got married yet. really diversify so that if things start to feel too intense or the dynamic starts to get ruptured in one area, you have other areas you belong. So keep that keep those doors open. So places your nervous system feels safe. Diversify your friend groups and your friendships and teach your kids the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Have different What about just prioritizing yourself and making that okay? Absolutely. I think you know and I I was just speaking in another interview and we have all different seasons and stages of life and if you’re in a stage or season of life where your priority is maybe self-respect or maybe really like honoring your peace or where you do feel safe, then by all means honor that. Lean into that. If you’re in a stage of life where you really feel like you need lots of social connections and lots of other people, it’s okay to lean into that. So big picture, I think it means different, you don’t have to stick with one thing. You can have different phases and stages of what feels best for you in your life. And if you’re in a stage of stepping back and reflecting and doing more self-development, that’s okay. Even if that’s different from how you typically would show up, you don’t have to stick to one one outfit. You don’t have to wear one costume throughout your whole life, right? You can change it up. Yeah. I just think too and this is something that well I share a lot because I I realize how important it is but you know just giving yourself that time to be quiet to connect with yourself to find some moments of gratitude because scientifically that that shifts everything within our brains right and how we look at things and there we’re not looking at the lack we’re looking at what we do have and then also that spiritual side. So, I don’t know. I just think that giving yourself permission like waking up a little bit earlier. Yeah. It’s great if you wake up early and you have your coffee and you’re playing Wordle, but give yourself a moment to actually connect with yourself. Yeah. Because we can get so lost in everyone else that we are caring for. Yep. It’s it’s and that’s basic mindfulness and self-awareness. So, and and I usually talk to my clients about it like you know when you’re driving on the highway and you’re doing a thousand things, it’s a route you’ve driven a hundred times before and you miss your exit. Yeah. Right. And you’re like, “Oh my gosh, how been there? How did I miss my exit?” Yeah. We don’t want our life to be a simulation of missing the exit. Yeah. Right. If we’re so busy and we’re so unmindful because we’re doing a thousand different things, you’re essentially going to miss your exit. So, slow down. Take a minute. Drive the road you’re driving on. It’s okay. So that you don’t miss your exit, right? It’s that self-awareness and that mindfulness.

I love it. Well, Dr. Noel, I can’t thank you enough for coming on Wake Up. I’m so happy I found you and you love this conversation and you shed so much light on a lot of areas that well, we’re all have navigated or are navigating and naming it for us. Yeah. Name it to tame it. Exactly. And yeah, I like that so much. You said that in the start and that’s the moms. We need to hear this today and that the problem it isn’t them, you know, don’t this is no self-lame or anything. It’s just about how we can and just be better and we all where we are and what we’re navigating. We’re all in it. We’re all in it because at the end of the day, we’re all a community. We should think that way, right? We have more similarities than differences. We’re all in. We really do. We really, really do. And thank you all for tuning in. If you’re listening, you’re watching, thank you so much for being here with us today. And if this resonated with you or someone needs to hear it, please share this episode. And I encourage you to follow Dr. Noel on Instagram. She has so much her posts are so safe and validating and there’s so much information and and how else can we get in touch with you Dr. Noel? So that’s the primary way my I’ve got email that’s attached to my Instagram but I will say my practice is full at the moment. I’m pretty pretty frequent user of Instagram so I’m on there quite a lot and I do have a website uh www.drnoelli.com. Fantastic. Well, I’ll have everything in the show notes and I tell you, we just being social media can be a great place to be because you get so much beautiful vital information that helps you in an area where maybe you don’t even want to talk to someone about it and this is something private for you where you can grow and learn. So, I want to thank you again for coming on the show and remember everyone, we rise by lifting each other up and I can’t wait to see you all next week. And always remember that your past does not define you. You are worthy and it is time to wake up to that worth. So, can’t wait to see you next Thursday with a new episode. Hope you have a great week.